Lauren Hartstone is executive creative director at Sibling Rivalry. Previously, she worked as a creative lead at Gretel and Imaginary Forces. Lauren has experience with many major brands such as Apple, HBOMax, Google/B&H, Audible, CPE, Amala, FX, VSPOT, TCM andTeachable.

We spent two minutes with Lauren to learn more about her background, her creative inspirations and recent work she’s admired.

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Lauren, tell us…

Where you grew up, and where you live now.

Connecticut to Westchester, N.Y., by way of Brooklyn.

Why you pursued a career in entertainment.

I believed (and still believe) in the incredible, all consuming, and emotive power of graphic design combined with film, and sound. I was obsessed with Saul Bass, Mike Mills, David Fincher, Wes Anderson, Pablo Ferro, Sofia Coppola, Hitchcock … and I just set my mind to finding a way in. Sounds like a funny collection of inspiration but I think design threads through all of them. 

Three movies/TV shows you couldn’t do without, and why.

• Six Feet Under – This is the first show that really had me hooked emotionally on every level. It was dark, beautiful, funny and cinematic. It really made me think about TV differently and I think was part of that transition from sitcom to filmic, high quality dramas.
• Mad Men – Design was such a fundamental part of the show and the brand. I loved every single detail and never skipped the titles (not just because they were made by dear friends of mine!)
• Succession – Completely obsessed. I love the dialogue and bizarre family dynamics. Very sad it’s over.

Your favorite movie trailer or poster.

Currently, my favorite poster is Spencer. I had the honor of voting for this one at the Clio Entertainment Awards this past year. I couldn’t stop staring at it —I love how the dress just drowns her in darkness. Some older favorites include The Lobster, Nocturnal Animals, I’m Still Here. I am a huge fan of designs by Neil Kellerhouse and Akiko Stehrenberger.

One of your favorite projects you’ve ever worked on, and why. 

One of my all time favorite entertainment projects is the identity, marketing and social content we created for Legendary, a ballroom competition show released on HBO Max in 2020.

I genuinely love telling stories that go deeper into the lives and passions of under-represented cultures, and this particular project was an opportunity to learn about the history of voguing and the power and beauty within the ballroom community.

This was also the first time we were hired to create both the show branding and show marketing simultaneously (through Scout Productions and HBO Max respectively). It is very rare to get to approach an entertainment brand so holistically and this collaboration not only allowed for a more seamless experience, but ultimately more powerful and cohesive creative.

A recent project you’re proud of. 

I am incredibly proud of the work we have done over the past few years to reimagine and launch Major League Soccer and Major League Baseball as streaming experiences.

One thing about how entertainment marketing is evolving that you’re excited about.

Despite the rise of A.I., I believe there is actually a return to authenticity that is bubbling up. Marketing that relies on gimmicks, overt star power or billboards that yell with their dimensional structure or effects are becoming rapidly less effective. People (especially young people!) can smell a lack of authenticity a mile away. 

That Spencer poster was a great example of a break from eye candy. It grabs you with a smart idea and pure, raw emotion. I am excited to see how this type of work will continue to break through and evolve.

Someone else’s work, in entertainment or beyond, that you admired lately.

I have recently been loving the work of my friend, Karin Fyhrie. Her design, photography and emotive AI explorations always offer a fresh perspective. And on the brand side, I have so much love for the new Heinz identity and campaign.

A book, movie, TV show or podcast you recently found inspiring.

I am currently re-discovering the work of Martin Amis. He is one of my favorite authors and he just passed away a few weeks ago. I’ve also been binging on Jim Stengel’s The CMO Podcast. Some great insights from Ukonwa Ojo, Dara Treseder and Melissa Waters.

A visual artist or band/musician you admire.

My husband, Leo O’Connor. He works at Paramount and is an amazing musician in his spare time.

Your favorite fictional character.

Tom Wambsgans and Fleabag. Quite possibly for the exact same reasons.

Someone worth following in social media.

@visuelle.co.uk/ for design
@romanandwilliams for interior/architecture
@fancybethany and @wrightprojects for photography
@nowness for art/culture/film

Your main strength as a marketer/creative.

I am incredibly passionate about every project I take on. I sincerely love the work and have no problem sticking with it from the 50,000 ft view to the tiniest of details. 

Your biggest weakness

See above. The last year I have been working towards letting go a bit more, trusting my team to do their job. It is better for their growth and for the creative to have a wider point of view. 

Something people would find surprising about you.

I am an avid runner. I just ran the Brooklyn Half Marathon. Exercising is the fuel I need to be creative. 

One thing that always makes you happy.

Listening to my children, Eliza and Sophie, tell me about their day over dinner.

One thing that always makes you sad.

Bullying.

What you’d be doing if you weren’t in entertainment.

I am very interested in hospitality, interior design and travel. I could see myself creating design centric experiences in that world.

Obviously Covid has been a tremendous challenge for all travel and hospitality-centric brands. As the pandemic has subsided in the U.S., can you discuss the challenges the tourism board and its members have faced in re-engaging consumers and promoting the city as a tourist destination they need to return to?

When the pandemic began, NYC was the epicenter, as I’m sure you remember. So, after conducting a consumer insights study to understand any sentiment challenges, our first challenge back in 2021 was creating urgency, letting the world know that we were open, that we were still the NYC people knew and loved, and that it was time to visit NYC (hence our latest campaign tagline, “It’s Time for New York City”). We were also very cognizant of the need to communicate our Covid safety and protocols. We undertook a concentric circle approach to our audience targeting like most destinations did at the time, focusing first on locals before anyone could travel, then the NE region and U.S. domestic, and then overseas markets as soon as they opened up that November. Now, it’s more about keeping NYC top of mind as a destination of choice since there’s a bit more competitiveness in the marketplace. We may still be considered but are not necessarily the automatic number one destination of choice for many markets, so we need to continually (re)educate the travel trade, where there was a tremendous amount of turnover during the pandemic, and remind prospective travelers of our product offering and all the diversity, culture and authentic experiences that can be found here, unlike any other destination in the world. 

How does the New York City tourism board use research and insights to measure its marketing effectiveness? 

We rely on our internal research team to deliver us the macro insights we need to understand what is happening in travel to NYC in general, for example in hotel occupancy, airlift, overarching trends, and economic conditions. They are also examining what is happening on a market-by-market basis in terms of currency fluctuations, political concerns and consumption habits of our top feeder markets. However, our marketing insights efforts led by our EVP of marketing and digital, Janette Roush, and our VP of digital and media, Carissa Parrish, are truly helping to take our marketing and media insights to the next level across all of our owned channels. We are continually testing and learning to understand the effectiveness of various creative iterations and outlets, and as part of our website update, we’re building a first-party data strategy to better build and understand our audience and consumer journey, since the end is nigh with cookies. We, of course, examine our media effectiveness closely in terms of traffic, impressions and engagements, but the most exciting part is putting the art and the science of all our findings together to create a more well-rounded approach, and always continue to learn, refine and improve.

Have the measurements that typically matter most to you changed in a post-pandemic world?

Our most important metrics haven’t changed post-pandemic, but they’ve certainly become more important. Of course, we look at the total amount of visitation for the city on an annual basis, but we also want to know how much tax revenue has been brought in and look at the total employment numbers in the tourism and hospitality industries as a key indicator. In addition, we are always striving to disperse the economic benefits of tourism throughout the five boroughs in an equitable manner, which was especially important as we came out of the pandemic.

We launched a multiphase survey with SMARI of our global tourism campaign to better understand the impact and ROI more directly there, measuring those who saw our campaign how many of them booked a trip and how much did they spend while here. We do not capture travel bookings on our site, so we get those results either through our travel partners who participate in the tourism campaign around the world or studies like this. Our 2021-222 domestic campaign brought in $352 in visitor spend for every $1 spent on the campaign, $5B in total visitor spend and 2MM trips to NYC between July 2021 and January 2022. Phase 1 of our international campaign, which brings in an even higher value visitor (international travelers are about 20 percent of our visitation but 50 percent of total spend), brought in $241 for every dollar spent, $822MM in visitor spending, and 346K trips between January and July 2022. The latest findings from Phase 2 of our international campaign are even more promising and we’ll be sharing that soon.

Wow—seeing that kind of return from your marketing efforts must feel great. How has your content strategy evolved post-pandemic? I absolutely love the “local legends” content your team produces, which seems to bring people into communities across the city that don’t sit squarely in the typical tourist spotlight. What was the inspiration behind that work? What else do you have cooking in the content category for storytelling of the city?

We have always celebrated the cultural diversity of our city in our content, however, with the hiring of our SVP of diversity initiatives and content, Rondel Holder, we have definitely doubled down on those efforts since the pandemic. We will continue our Local Legends series to complete all the boroughs, and after that will continue building our Black, Latin and Asian Experience content platforms, which highlight New Yorkers and small businesses throughout the five boroughs, sharing their perspective on some of our most vibrant and culturally rich neighborhoods. And, of course, coming up soon is the 50th anniversary of Hip Hop, so we’re very excited to launch our content hub around that next month with guides, interviews, interactive maps and more, with a special spotlight on The Bronx.

I was a hip hop DJ many years ago (I won’t give away my age) so I’m looking forward to the anniversary festivities! Looking ahead, what new strategies or initiatives is the tourism board considering to further engage consumers and promote tourism to the city?

We look forward to continuing the work we do every day, which is bringing in leisure and business event travelers and dispersing that visitation and equity throughout the five boroughs. We have fantastic content but our budgets are limited, so we will be focusing on building our revenue to ensure we have robust distribution plans to ensure that content gets seen by the right audiences, so that will be a big focus of ours moving forward. We’ll be continuing our efforts domestically and internationally to encourage both bookings and exploration throughout the five boroughs, and as we wait for the return of China, continue diversifying our approach to focus where we’re seeing great incremental growth in markets like Brazil, India and Australia. As mentioned earlier, we’ll continue refining our digital strategy as we relaunch our website in May with better personalization and targeting to further fine-tune our understanding of the consumer journey in our digital ecosystem across social, our site and email channels.

As someone who sits at the center of working with so many incredible NYC iconic businesses and having just lived through helping them navigate a very challenging time, what’s the one word you would use to best describe the character of New York City? 

It may be an overused term at this point, but I have to say RESILIENCE. NYC has been through a lot over the years, from 9/11 to the pandemic, but we always come back better and stronger than before. You can’t keep NYC down!

Damian Bazadona: Hornblower’s City Experiences offers an incredible premium slate of live experiences across the globe in a way that is unique. Given the wide range of interests, tastes, needs of consumers, how would you describe the process—or the secret sauce, if you’re able to tell us!—in the matchmaking process between someone looking to buy an incredible experience and the recommendations you ultimately give them.

Kristina Heney: City Experiences offers both locals and tourists alike with world-class water and land-based experience offerings across major travel destinations worldwide. To differentiate from our competitors, we have to develop strategic marketing messaging highlighting our unique assets that set us apart to guests engaging with our brand.

First, as direct tour operators, it allows us to create a personal and customized consumer journey. Through our diverse portfolio of global travel experiences, we are truly able to offer something for every type of guest. Whether you’re with your family looking to get up close to majestic whales with our Whale Watching Tours in Boston and San Diego, you and a group of friends are visiting the iconic cellhouses of Alcatraz with our Alcatraz City Cruises, or you’re on your honeymoon in Rome experiencing the Vatican’s Key Master VIP tour, City Experiences provides our guests with unique, one-of-a-kind offerings that you won’t find anywhere else.

Most of all, our amazing experiences are delivered by our own renowned Crew and expert Tour Guides. We think like operators, and our Crew are truly the heart of the organization, as they are the ones that make our guests experience that much more memorable—by providing that bespoke experience. Being able to both deliver and exceed those guest expectations is paramount for our brand.

It’s one thing to say, “I want to go have an experience.” It’s something entirely different to make that statement a reality. Money, time, babysitters, parking—there are a lot of good reasons to stay home. How do you move people to “action” against the relentless frictions of life?

We know that guests’ motivations and expectations have evolved over the past two years, and we have to adapt to those traits to ensure we continue to deliver first-class experiences. As a live-experience operator, we believe our guests’ time and experience begins the minute they step out the door. We know that people’s time and financial commitment are precious and want to ensure that end-to-end consumer journey is seamless. It is imperative that our guests know they are going to be delivered with a first-class experience, from start to finish, and make them feel that it was worth their while—encouraging them to return or explore another one of our offerings.

As a follow-up to that question, how has the pandemic changed the behavior of your customers? Obviously, all live experiences have been heavily impacted, but I’m curious now that people are more likely to return to engaging in experiences, what’s different in their behavior?

Even Covid has proved that personal connection can’t be replaced—it’s all about that feeling of connectivity, bringing people together and sharing that common ground of a live experience. And with that, we had to change our marketing approach, dialing up the emotional engagement with our brands, developing partnerships and a stronger social presence to increase our reach and lean heavily into digital technology to drive personalized communications, engagement and repeat visits.

Additionally, coming out of the pandemic, digital adoption has soared in the ways that consumers engage in experiences. We knew we needed to enhance our guest experience and have invested heavily in technology in order to deliver a new frictionless and personalized journey using innovative technology platforms.

Given the extensive offerings you have across many major markets, you are clearly the “go to” for many customers’ experience planning. What’s your strategic framework for moving a one-time buyer to a two-time buyer and beyond? Is it more weighted towards “Remember how amazing your last experience was,” or is it more weighted towards the future of “Your next amazing experience awaits you”?

Guests are now looking for that emotional connection and communal experiences. It’s not only about what you learn, but what is it that you take away with you. You have to leverage that within your marketing approach, dialing up the emotional engagement with your brand. Consumers are also looking for that deep level of experience, allowing our guests to see something different and truly be wowed. Taking those iconic institutions, which are awe-inspiring on their own, but going to that extra level of seeing something at sunrise or in your own private group. It’s taking that feeling of not just “I did that” but “I experienced that as no one else could.”

Aside from your current role at City Experiences, I know you have also worked on an incredible range of brands, from Cirque du Soleil to Madison Square Garden to the NBA and many others. When you look at the broader market of live events and experiences, what’s the biggest difference(s) you see in the live experiences that thrive and those that stumble?

My career trajectory has led me to work with world-renowned brands and institutions from a variety of industries, including sports, entertainment and now travel and hospitality. But the common denominator as a marketer is not only understanding your guest, but evolving with them. Guests’ motivations and expectations continue to grow, especially coming out of Covid, and you have to adapt to ensure that you are continuing to realize them. Being able to make that personal connection and deliver a first-class experience ensures that your guest continues to engage with your brand and develop brand loyalty.

This might be the hardest question I ask you but I think it’s an important and appropriate one to end on. What is the one live experience you think everyone should do at least once in this lifetime?

One live experience I would say everyone must do in their lifetime is to get out and see the world. As travel is beginning to rebound, there is no time like the present to feed that wanderlust. One of the most memorable experiences I have done is recently I visited our WALKS Vatican’s Key Master VIP tour in Rome. In the tour, you and a small group are able to join the Vatican Key Master, prior to opening to the public, as they lead you from room to room, opening the doors of the renowned institution and culminating with the Sistine Chapel. Being able to have that experience as you are standing there watching the lights illuminate the artistry of Michelangelo is majestic and one of the most memorable experiences I will forever take with me.

Damian Bazadona: From a U.S. Open perspective, what does it mean to be a tennis fan? Are the majority of fans also tennis players? Or do you have a lot of fans who are primarily spectators and just love to watch the sport or individual players?

Nicole Kankam: While the U.S. Open definitely attracts what we call “entertainment seekers,” people who like to attend events and place a premium on the experiential, we also know that about half of the attendees play tennis, so it’s an audience that’s highly engaged in tennis participation. Most fans purchase their tickets prior to knowing the schedule of play, so the data shows they are attending because they are fans of the U.S. Open and the full experience it offers, or fans of tennis in general. However, this year, with Serena announcing her “evolution” from tennis, there was obviously a tremendous surge in interest in wanting to see her at what was expected to be her final Grand Slam event. But we’re also excited about the new crop of players that have emerged and are already generating interest and excitement around our sport.

How do you grow your fan base or expand that definition of what makes a tennis fan?

One of our key priorities for the U.S. Open is to expand beyond the two weeks of the main draw. We did this by creating U.S. Open Fan Week, thus hosting a three-week tennis and entertainment festival. Returning after a hiatus due to the pandemic, U.S. Open Fan Week provided a host of free activities and content on the grounds of the USTA Billie Jean King National Tennis Center. The goal is to introduce new fans to the U.S. Open and the sport of tennis. Throughout the week, there was no shortage of content, including the qualifying tournament, where future stars compete for the final slots in the U.S. Open main draw, up-close access to top player practices, a marquis legends match, a free concert by Joe Jonas’ band DNCE, and our first-ever U.S. Open food festival. While access to the grounds was free, we created Fan Access Pass as a mechanism to enhance a fan’s experience with certain gated activities. This also allowed us to capture fan data to foster engagement post-event and entice them to return next year.

I know a big part of your efforts were also centered on showcasing inclusiveness. Tell me more about that.

As an extension of our #BeOpen campaign, now in its third year showcasing inclusiveness and support for diverse communities, we’ve developed programming and events that create space for these communities to be seen at the U.S. Open. Some examples from this year’s U.S. Open include HBCU Live at the U.S. Open, celebrating the rich history and culture of historically Black colleges and universities and their connection to tennis; Open Pride Day, honoring the LGBTQ+ community on-site and across our channels; and Be Open Armory Off-Site—a partnership with the Armory Show to highlight artists from underrepresented backgrounds with a display of unique sculptures on the grounds of the U.S. Open.

In addition, the USTA’s mission is about growing tennis and making it look like America. And with tennis participation seeing tremendous growth, adding more than 5 million players over the last two years, we see the U.S. Open as another opportunity to inspire a love for the sport. An integral part of that strategy is leveraging U.S. Open attendee data to draw them into the broader USTA ecosystem and funnel them toward play opportunities to keep them engaged in the sport.

How did the pandemic change how you engaged with your fans? For example, I saw 2020 was the first U.S. Open without spectators in the tournament’s history. How did you approach developing new, creative ways to keep your fans engaged without one of the biggest touch points you have with your community—the live experience?

Like everyone else in the sports and entertainment business, 2020 was a tremendously challenging year. The U.S. Open, perhaps even more than other events, thrives on the in-person experience because we like to think that part of what our fans enjoy goes beyond the on-court experience. From the premium culinary offerings, to all the engaging activations our sponsors bring to life, to the upscale shopping experience, it’s a true festival-like atmosphere. But in addition to that, the U.S. Open is a global event, broadcast in 200+ countries with a digital presence that is more international in reach during our tournament. So in 2020, once we determined we would host the tournament without fans, we focused on engaging that global audience with fan activations that brought the fan more into the in-stadium experience, including the U.S. Open Fan Cam that we featured on the screens around the U.S. Open court. We also created a virtual player box to help recreate the experience of having the coaches and entourage cheer on their players since they couldn’t be there live. And we created a new merchandise product offering, the at-home suite, which was a curated box of all the U.S. Open essentials, including the glasses for our signature beverage, the Grey Goose Honey Deuce, with the recipe so fans could make at home. Now that we’re back to fans on-site, the at-home suite is still an ongoing key part of our merchandise offering.

Not always a part of mainstream conversation, tennis has become a bit more a part of the zeitgeist in recent years. What do you think has changed that has brought more attention to the world of tennis? Has the celebrity status of certain tennis players impacted that?

Serena and Venus Williams have undoubtedly changed the landscape of tennis, not just with their amazing talent on the court but with their interests beyond tennis. They are cultural icons who have been large drivers of the expanding interest and presence of tennis in popular culture. They have also inspired other tennis players, like Coco Gauff and Naomi Osaka and others, who are emerging champions on the court but are also thinking about their impact and influence beyond tennis. And with Roger Federer also announcing his retirement, it’s evident how he has changed the game on the men’s side in being a world-class athlete as well as a global ambassador for the sport.

But beyond these world-renowned superstars, each year the U.S. Open is an event where the convergence of sports, celebrity and entertainment attracts attention from all corners of culture. Leveraging our own channels, as well as expanding the storytelling beyond sports media, is an area where our communications and social teams have been very successful. This year’s event in particular was our most successful event, from record sales and attendance to site traffic and social engagement. So we will look to continue to leverage the cultural relevance, even as attention shifts to a new crop of superstars.

There is a truly unique culture around tennis and many time-honored traditions like the quiet before the serve, the dress code, etc. How do you nurture the old, while welcoming the new? How do you navigate growth?

We do seek to strike a balance in honoring the history and tradition of our sport while being open to embracing innovations that help bring in new fans. We are very intentional about connecting to the distinct persona of New York City through branding and marketing efforts. This year’s campaign, “Spectacular Awaits,” was created as a nod to the U.S. Open being a sports and entertainment spectacle unlike any other. It essentially informed all aspects of the event and our desire to deliver a spectacular experience for fans both on-site and watching and following around the world, from advertising and promotional efforts, to on-site branding and LED screens, to social media engagement and beyond. All of our messaging, even how we discussed plans internally, focused on this singular idea and created a framework for teams across the planning spectrum to innovate and ultimately deliver on the positioning. It is a platform that can have longevity as we look to navigate growth for the future.

If 10 years from now you and I were to sit down again for this interview, what do you think would be the biggest changes to the world of tennis from where we sit today?

We have lived in an unprecedented era of tennis where a few players have dominated the tennis conversation for quite some time, so I imagine over the next several years we will see a number of stars emerge who will capture the attention of old and new fans alike. How and when fans make the decision to attend the U.S. Open, what they expect from an engagement perspective on-site, and how they consume the product around the world will likely shift and evolve, but in 10 years I expect we will continue to be agile and willing enough to respond to those changing dynamics.

Afternoons, you can expect to stumble upon pop-up performances in various locations in the park. Live performances of dance, music and circus. Buskers—the energy and variety of street performance is the energy on tap.

During the evenings, Little Island hosts a range of events, all summer long, for visitors of every age, throughout the various spaces of our park. The Amph, our 687-seat performance space facing the Hudson River, hosts ticketed events featuring artists across all disciplines. The Glade, an intimate stage set at the foot of an inviting lawn, hosts all free events—music, comedy and arts workshops for visitors of all ages. The Play Ground, our open plaza, offers food and beverage options, pop-up performances, and late-night programming including trivia nights, bingo and sing-alongs. 

How would you describe the Little Island community? I would imagine you would have such a diverse range of visitors.

Little Island’s community goal is to look like the inside of a New York City subway car. We want to achieve that diversity from all angles. Our staff, artists and visitors come from New York and all over the world. To our delight, there are times when the park is filled with more everyday New Yorkers than tourists, which means we are successfully saving a space for local people to enjoy this new world-class attraction. 

Little Island is a space where people of all ages and backgrounds are invited to engage, explore and thrive. We provide educational programming in the park and host various community and arts organizations every summer, including Greenwich House Music School, MoCADA, Children’s Museum of the Arts, the Free Black Women’s Library and more. We also partner with neighborhood schools, provide job opportunities for young people, and provide free tickets to all of our performances in the Amph. 

Our partnerships with Hudson Guild, Greenwich House and the Westbeth Artists Residents Council have brought art, dance and theater workshops to local older adults. Participants in these partnerships work with our Little Island artists-in-residence on public programs, creating and sharing their art with park visitors. Our teaching artists have led Latin dance nights with the community at Hudson Guild; Greenwich House hosts a weekly musical Creative Break in the park; and the seniors of Westbeth performing original stories as part of the Little Island Storytelling Festival.

How do you look at the ways Little Island can engage the surrounding community? It’s one thing to get people to be a part of the community, it’s another for the community to be active. Are there any particular investments you think are critical to build, grow and maintain a passionate community for Little Island?

We think the way to build community is to engage, educate and employ local people.

Making sure our employees have everything they need to be successful is the best investment and mission critical. We are a public-facing enterprise. Our whole reason for existence revolves around generating joy and holding space for people to connect with each other using art and nature. So, providing every single one of our employees with authentic opportunities to learn and grow—a fair and engaging workplace—that is the soil that we need to be able to cultivate community on Little Island. 

We partner with local community-based organizations to offer free tickets to all of our shows, and we support creative communities. Our Teen Night is a great example of the kind of impactful and multi-level community partnerships we are interested in creating.

Produced in partnership with The Door, a social service agency that serves youth in crisis, Little Island’s Teen Night offers a safe and brave space for young people ages 16–24 to have fun, learn, perform and engage with art, nature and community. Young people are invited to join us for this weekly series of art workshops, panel discussions, open rehearsals and performances in the Glade. The event is joyful and open to the public. Visitors make up the bulk of the enthusiastic audience for this event, so we are putting people together who would probably never be in the same space—a tourist from Sweden and an LGBTQ kid from the south Bronx, for example. 

Through our Community Ticketing Program, we partner with the New York City Department of Youth and Community Development (DYCD) and the New York City Department of Education’s Office of Arts and Special Projects (OASP) to distribute free performance tickets to organizations and families throughout NYC, ensuring that a broad diversity of New Yorkers have access to Little Island’s programming. In our first year, we distributed over 40,000 free tickets. 

How do you keep your finger on the pulse of your community to bring them the experiences they want most?

We listen to our visitors, and we try to be responsive. We conduct formal observations to see how visitors are using the park and interacting. We track which items are moving off the food trucks. We use all the usual tools like a visitor survey, audience survey and even the odd focus group when we need help making a decision. We invite visitors to complete a survey after the show, and staff review a snapshot of survey results, including visitors’ comments, at the end of each month. 

Finding the right balance of programming will always be a moving target, but the quality of a visitor’s experience really sinks or swims on more mundane things. Clean bathrooms. Clean bathrooms. Clean bathrooms. Our standard of care, the way we maintain the park, is paramount. People need a safe, clean, inviting place to sit and just be human. It is not an extra.

Given you do such a wide range of arts programming, what’s your message for artists and creators to come present their work at Little Island? It’s a beautiful, outdoor public space on the water—while it’s an amazing experience for the patron, that must be a unique canvas for artists.

New York’s artists and performers help bring Little Island’s park landscape to life, inspiring discovery and joy for all who visit. Through our artists-in-residence program, we partner with a cohort of innovative performing artists and visionaries to help curate and lead programming and events throughout the park. 

Local artists interested in bringing their talents to Little Island can apply through our annual Perform in the Park open call program, for paid performance opportunities. Perform in the Park invites artists who can channel New York’s iconic spontaneity and energy and bring that spirit to life on Little Island’s dynamic stages and spaces, surrounded by nature, water, and city views. In 2021 and 2022, we presented approximately 75 Perform in the Park artists.

In practical terms, we are always working to present artists and entertainments that make sense within the context of a public park. Artists must be comfortable working outdoors, sharing work that embraces the unique challenges of each of our venues. Finally, and most important, we value artistic excellence, which means different things depending on the discipline. 

As an organization that is still reasonably new to the market, how do you think about investing in building new relationships and supporters while keeping a bond with those that have been engaged since when you first launched? You have visitors who live less than a mile away, and at the same time, visitors who reside across the world. How do you balance these needs? 

For local people, we’re their neighborhood park, a clean, well-lighted place that they can rely on. For tourists, we are an attraction—a place where they are hoping to have a memorable experience. Serving both those needs is a balancing act. The hard part is that we must do it 365 days a year, consistently. 

Our visitorship and our audiences are wildly diverse, but no matter who you are, we want you to feel like we thought of you before you came. That’s the hat trick we are trying to pull off, every day. When a visitor, whoever they are, has a need, we want to be ready and able to meet it. Whether it is making sure the park is fully accessible for someone who uses a wheelchair or putting entertainment onstage that is accessible to the widest audience. That $3 ice cream cone, that rollicking musical variety show in the Amph, and that family-friendly circus performer that just pops up in The Play Ground might feel like serendipity to visitors, but a lot of planning goes into making the park experience feel surprising and whimsical. The way we program Little Island, even down to the offerings in the food trucks, reflects our desire to offer a little bit of something for everyone, every day. 

One of my favorite things about Little Island is the incredible workforce program you’ve created for the next generation of talent in the city. I wish more organizations would take an active role in this. Can you explain what the program is and why we should be excited about its impact? 

Little Island’s Workforce Development Program is called Pathways to Employment. It’s really a suite of programs and activities that are about giving people more opportunity to learn, earn, and build a career. In simple terms, Pathways reflects our commitment to caring about our employees’ next step. 

Some of our work in this space looks traditional and some of it is more organic and opportunistic. Through our partnership with the City University of New York (CUNY), college students and recent alumni can learn professional skills and receive pathways to employment through paid opportunities with Little Island. 

We launched our Internship Program in July 2018 with two interns recruited from our partnership with Hudson Guild, which serves the local NYCHA houses. We launched our Fellowship Program in 2021, offering six CUNY students a work/study program that aligned with their career goals. This year, we launched our Usher Corps Program to provide summer jobs for an additional 16 CUNY students.

Our alumni group for these programs now totals 41 people, and we are serving more people every year.

That’s real progress. Congratulations. This must have a profound impact on the people in your organization.

Pathways is about our commitment to creating high-quality jobs for our staff, especially our seasonal staff. Everyone on our staff gets access to professional development and training that helps them be better at the job they have now, or a future job. As we enter year three of our operation, I can say that people are routinely being promoted from within. I would say this work makes it more likely that our employees know that we care about them and it demonstrates that there is room to grow at Little Island. Our approach to workforce starts with the idea that there are lots of talented people out there who just need a chance to shine. We now have a slew of success stories featuring staff who have either been promoted internally or have found worthwhile opportunities elsewhere, with our support. 

If more employers took this kind of approach, we think the world of work would be improved for New Yorkers who need good jobs. Just by trying to make our seasonal employment opportunities, of which there are many, a little bit more rewarding, we are changing people’s lives for the better. 

Little Island is now a part of the fabric of New York City. What’s the one word you would describe the future of our amazing city? 

Opportunity.

Over the last few years, Black Theatre United (BTU) has been a pioneer in moving the Broadway industry forward in the critically important conversation of diversity, equity and inclusion. It’s one thing to advocate for change, but there is something even more enriching for the community to make meaningful steps a reality, and I greatly admire what BTU has done. I recently had a chance to sit down with the group’s inspiring co-founder Michael McElroy to get an inside look into their work, their mission moving forward, and what they’ve learned along the way. It’s an inspiring conversation.

Damian Bazadona: Passionate and committed—these are the two words that are used to describe the leadership team at your organization, Black Theatre United. How do you keep that fire alive in the organization?

Michael McElroy: Remaining passionate and committed to our work as founders of Black Theatre United is not difficult. We believe in the theater industry and its potential to do and be better. All of us have navigated rooms where we learned to thrive in spite of systems and structures meant to derail us. We have also been in spaces over the years where we have been welcomed and given permissions to be our full and authentic selves. Learning and growing from both spaces has provided us with the much-needed resilience to engage a long-lasting career in the arts. And it has empowered us with the tools to navigate all spaces, build allies we can call upon and an opportunity to cultivate our own voices to advocate for ourselves and others. Our passion and commitment comes from years of being in this business and a deep desire to collaborate and partner to ensure the theater industry becomes a space where Black artists and theater makers not only have access, but once in the room, can truly thrive. 

How do you keep that passion and commitment going with your donors and supporters against an array of societal ills that need support? You are competing with the headlines and people’s mental space to dedicate to your important work.

We don’t view our work as being in competition with other organizations and individuals. We view our work and the work of others as being in concert. There are many ways to ensure that our industry celebrates diversity and creates more inclusive practices so that people of color are given access and a fair shot at being an essential part of our community. As founders, we meet monthly as a group; but depending on what committees we serve on, we can be in conversation weekly or even daily. In our time together, we have learned to shoulder the load together. Even on committees, some will lead on specific issues and initiatives while others support. This way we don’t overtax each other and it gives each of us the opportunity to step into leadership and also to serve as support systems. We work together to ensure that the initiatives and causes we take on truly center the uplifting of Black bodies, Black artistry and Black opportunities across all fields within the theater industry and in important initiatives that affect Black people across the country. That is our north star. Staying in communication with donors and supporters is essential, and we’re learning to be even more communicative through our social media platforms. To us, it’s never about a competition because there is so much work to be done and it will take all of us to do it.

As you look back in time, are there any lessons you learned in the rapid growth of BTU that you would do differently if you could do it all over again?

We’ve learned a great deal, but I wouldn’t say I would change the lessons that have resulted from the journey. When we first joined together, many entities wanted to partner with us. There was a great need across our industry to do something, and even with good intentions, prove that individual organizations were instituting changes that were illuminated during the shutdown and taking of Black lives on the streets of our country. But true change takes mindfulness, great intention and time. We are interested in planting roots that deepen and expand, so that the structures and systems of change we partner and collaborate on are long-lasting.

That is why the New Deal for Broadway was so important. It is a document that speaks to the changes we need now, and challenges our industry to move towards the changes needed for the future. The fact that we were able to assemble organizations and individuals from all fields within our industry was a Herculean effort. I think it was the first time ever that all these entities held one space. But it was important to us because we realized the transformation we seek would not happen unless there was collaboration and buy-in across our entire industry. 

So if I had to say what lessons we’ve learned, I would say staying steadfast, leading with grace while holding partners accountable, making space for everyone—understanding we’re all in different places on this journey to more inclusive practice—and ensuring those who wish to partner with you are like-minded and committed to the true long-term transformation of our theater community. 

You have a powerful, connected and respected group of leadership. Most have busy lives as actors, etc. How do you maximize the impact of their support?

Once again it goes back to passion and commitment. What we’re doing as founders, like many other organizations, is essential to our core beliefs and experiences as individuals. We understand and believe that we stand on the shoulders of the generations that came before us. There are so many who fought and tried and were denied access. We all have worked very hard to achieve within our industry and we recognize that we have had opportunities that many have not. With that understanding comes great responsibility. BTU is a priority for all of us. We want to make a difference in our community. We utilize our power, personal and professional currency to be agents of change. We know our industry can do better. It has to. And we want to be a part of that change because we understand that the way forward is through creating spaces for diverse voices across all fields in our industry. More voices, more lived experiences given access to the table and truly valued, holds the potential for innovation and the future of our theatrical community. There is no return to what was before the pandemic. There is only a way forward. That is incredibly exciting. 

What is the most surprising thing you’ve learned in your journey about Broadway you didn’t realize when you first set out to do your work?

There are so many allies in our community. We live in a world where systems and structures are made to separate us. So much fear is messaged that if someone achieves or receives an opportunity, it not only takes something from you but is even to your detriment. That creates a world of anger, mistrust and fear. What I have learned is that many want to do the right thing, but they lack the tools to make the changes we so desperately need. And we live in a world that doesn’t allow for mistakes. Sometimes the fear of saying or doing the wrong thing is what keeps allies from stepping out into a space of change. So it truly does take partnership, grace and collaboration, while also holding folks accountable for learning the skills to do the work.

It can’t all fall on people of color to do. These systems and structures within our community are just a smaller microcosm of what we see playing out across our country. They are deeply seated and habitual. Even in this moment as we seek a way forward, the lure to return to what was is insidious. We have to make sure that what we are creating is incredibly specific, so that it disrupts the very nature of the biases that have brought us to this place. All that to say that even when we want to do the right thing, it does not always mean we know how. So we have to stay vigilant. Maintain open lines of communication, lead with grace, but also strength of purpose. The systems that have hindered true inclusive practice and access to people of color were not created overnight and will take time to dismantle and transform our industry for the betterment of us all.

What makes you the most hopeful for the future of BTU and the important advancements in justice and equality you are trying to make in the world?

That even through all the ups and downs that have occurred during the return this past year, folks are still in conversation. We are still being supported. We are being listened to. And we are still working in collaboration with the many organizations that were created during the pandemic or doing this work before the shutdown. We are not going away. There is no back to return to. Only forward. I believe in our community’s desire to do better. And I along with fellow founders of Black Theatre United will work along with many others to ensure that we continue that path forward, fulfilling our potential as a diverse space that is inclusive—where all have access, feel they belong and can thrive.

To get a sense of the remarkable power of the live experience, look no further than the city of Detroit. At the heart of so many of those live experiences in Detroit is the premier live entertainment company 313 Presents. I recently had the privilege of sitting down with Howard Handler, president of 313 Presents, to get an inside look into how they have built such strong, passionate communities over the years. Howard is a true visionary in the entertainment and media business, so our conversations are always full of exciting energy and a strategic point of view that always impresses me.

Damian Bazadona: 313 Presents produces concerts, theatrical productions, sporting events and family shows at six world-class venues across southeast Michigan, inspired by the soul of Detroit. How do you keep your finger on the pulse of your community to bring them the live experiences they want most?

Howard Handler: Firstly, we’ve got a terrific booking team with relationships and experience all across the landscape of music, comedy, theatricals, family shows, sporting events … the whole gamut of live entertainment. They always have a keen sense of what’s out there and what Detroiters will love.

Personally speaking, I’ve always tried to soak up as much as possible—to be a fan, as well as a student, of music and pop culture. I’m constantly listening, reading and paying attention to everything I can. Sometimes I feel like “So much music, so little time” and I’ll miss some stuff for sure. But there are typically very few events we book that haven’t already been on my radar in one way or another. 

The other important thing to note is the soul of Detroit. We have the most remarkably passionate concertgoers in the world. Detroit’s enduring status as a legendary music mecca and a must-play touring destination is a testament to our community’s interest in and enthusiasm for diverse entertainment offerings. 

We’re so fortunate for the ability to deliver on our community’s passion for live events; that’s typically 350 shows across our six venues, which range in size from 4,000 to 40,000 capacity. This versatility allows us to deliver access to concerts and content of every genre and medium. The goal is to always support the dynamic musical and entertainment interests of our community with a world-class range of programming.

What have been some of your biggest learnings over the years about what moves a fan, from thinking about coming to a live entertainment experience to actually purchasing a ticket and showing up?

First and foremost, content is king. The show, the artist, the attraction itself is what will ultimately move a fan to buy a ticket. For certain fans, it’s automatic. Example: We just booked Dwight Yoakam—I’m a huge fan. If I wasn’t working, I’m there no matter what.

Secondly, it’s our ability to get the message out—communicating info about the right show, to the right audience, using the right medium. Everything we do on the marketing end is dedicated to working as hard and as creatively as possible to build awareness and purchase intent and ultimately to convert and get that sale. Our website, our database, our social channels, our partnerships with radio, our campaigns and, of course, local market expertise are all key. The entertainment options are endless today, so marketing is a critical part of the equation.

Lastly, if guests have a great experience, that’s another good bet on their desire to come back and see another show at one of our venues. We strive to deliver top-notch service and an unforgettable experience; from before you leave your house to the moment you exit one of our parking facilities, all of these factors are essential to a positive guest experience. Guest experience is another area where there’s more sophistication, more data and insights to draw upon. We work hard and keep challenging ourselves to make sure our guests see and feel the value in their attendance.

Are there any major “no-no’s” in how and when you engage with your community?

We manage our messaging and especially frequency of communication carefully. We want to feel like a message or announcement from 313 Presents is welcome and worthwhile. We’re all fans at heart, so respect is key and non-negotiable.

During the pandemic, when folks could no longer come together to experience what they love in your venues, you came up with some new ways—playlists, activities, etc.—to keep your community engaged. What were some of the more meaningful insights you learned through that experience?

We learned a lot about the resilience and tenacity of our industry and the team at 313 Presents. Concerts and live entertainment were the first sector to shut down and one of the last to come back online. We lived through a 17-month hiatus from full-scale live shows. In the beginning, we were canceling and postponing shows at an intense pace, and morale was a huge concern. So we set up regular, virtual team-building get-togethers to create a sense of connectivity and well-being. We had a bunch of cool guests including Robin Zander of Cheap Trick, sportscaster Erin Andrews, NFL legend Derrick Brooks and tour production legend Jake Berry. 

I think that togetherness proved powerful as we moved through the process, and once protocols permitted, the 313 team was able to get creative with our partners to reimagine our venue spaces and the programming we could provide to our community.

As an example, we converted our largest parking lot—at Pine Knob Music Theatre—to a “stage” for drive-through entertainment. We did a dinosaur show called Jurassic Quest and an amazing holiday light show called Magic of Lights. We also partnered with Normal Studio from Montreal to present the highly sought-after art exhibition Beyond Van Gogh: The Immersive Experience at Huntington Place (Detroit’s convention center). All told, we entertained almost a quarter million people with these nontraditional shows. So, we expanded our event mix. This will be one of the positive legacies of the pandemic.

But the most enduring takeaway was the resounding enthusiasm for live entertainment that just never waned. Sure “live” pivoted and provided new digital and social engagement opportunities. But ultimately, virtual entertainment could never replace live—that magical place where people come together to experience those unforgettable, once-in-a-lifetime moments. 

Giving back to those who are under-resourced in your community is also a large part of the work that you do. Have you found it essential that those efforts go hand in hand with the experiences you bring to the community?

We have traditionally provided tickets to nonprofits and charitable groups; that’s the easy stuff. We have a couple of newer, more ambitious initiatives we are implementing this year that I am particularly excited about. From a team member perspective, we are partnering with a local charity for our first official All-Company Day of Service this fall and, additionally, encouraging our staff to partake in a second day of service to volunteer at a charity of their choice. 

313 Presents is also partnering with Olympia Development, Comerica Bank and Detroit Public Schools to bring back the Evening of Fine Arts to the historic Fox Theatre, providing students the opportunity to perform and showcase their artwork on the stage on which so many amazing artists have stepped foot before them, showcasing that anything is possible. How awesome as a parent to be able to see your child perform in that beautiful setting where Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder and so many others have played.

You have deep experience working at the center of building passionate communities from MTV to the NFL to MLS. How will the virtual ways of connection we’ve grown to love most effectively sit side-by-side with the live experiences we miss so much?

Virtual platforms enhance and extend the live experience. As I said before, they won’t replace live, but they allow us to serve more people and foster richer engagement. Artists and brands love the opportunity to connect with their fans directly, anytime, every day. I’ve loved witnessing and participating in the nonstop march of technology to serve fans, artists and brands. MTV and cable TV were plenty innovative at one point. With Virgin Mobile, I got to see the power of a phone in everyone’s hand, mass adoption of SMS and the beginning of social media. Streaming has been a game changer. Now we’re all trying to figure out the potential of the metaverse, blockchain and the growing world of music NFTs. Technology will continue to create opportunities to deepen the live experience far beyond the actual concert. 

You’re someone I’ve admired for always bringing great optimism into any room you enter. Has the last few years rattled your optimism about the future of the live experience?

When our industry shut down and everyone was in lockdown, it was brutal. Too many people lost loved ones and had their lives change forever. But I’ve always believed when life gives you lemons, you must make lemonade; and so that’s how I tried to lead. We got into the lemonade business, maintained hope, and looked after one another.

From the fortitude of the 313 Presents team and our industry partners to the loyalty and love shown by the fans throughout the pandemic, I have never been more certain of the importance that music, theater and sport play in our daily lives. It’s what keeps us going and offers an escape and experience that you can’t forget. There is nothing like grabbing a group of friends and heading out to a show under the stars on a hot summer night to dance, to get loud and to have a good time. Live entertainment has been a powerful cultural force and great business for ages and it won’t let up anytime soon! 

I had the great pleasure of meeting Nicole Johnson, founder and creative director of Harriet Tubman Effect, at a recent TEDx event I helped organize. Her work in dismantling systemic oppression continues to garner support across a range of industries. What I’ve learned from hearing her speak about her work is that success in her efforts requires the people and communities she is working with to fully engage. Engagement is a buzzword used in many circles but it seems this is one of the core currencies in the work of breaking down legacy systems and making true progress. Nicole is a pioneer in this space and brought some really thoughtful insights to the conversation.

Damian Bazadona: A significant amount of your very important work is to dismantle systemic oppression and usher in a new era of empathy. What has been the most important force in building a community of support for your work?

Nicole Javanna Johnson: I work with leaders, artists, community members and researchers across several industries as they dismantle systemic oppression, and our commitment to grace has been the most important force in building our community. Grace is generally understood as a sentiment or a tone in this work of diversity, equity and inclusion, but we define grace as a refusal to give up on telling the truth about our workplace circumstances, our behaviors, the behaviors of others and our communal decisions. We are telling one another the truth about the systems we are a part of and holding one another accountable for the change we want to contribute to.

Throughout our journey dismantling systemic oppression, we explore everything from personal identity, impact and influence to understanding the motivations, history and skill sets of the people we are collaborating with. It’s certainly a huge influx of information, and the process tends to uproot personal insecurities and activates our hesitancy. Grace also comes in as we help one another commit to our journey despite the hiccups, twists and turns.

Success in changing people’s behavior is often a marathon and not a sprint. How do you keep your community of supporters engaged and sustained? What’s the hardest part of maintaining a community of support?

Our human nature is rooted in sense-making: understanding the small stories and grand stories that make up our everyday circumstances. Telling the story of this marathon towards sustainable social change and dismantling systemic oppression is my largest task in sense-making for members of the community. I’m consistently retelling the story of why we are participating in this work together, offering new details, painting the larger picture and reminding people of their role in it.

You would think our brains remember why we are committed to this work, but the stressors of defeat, ongoing social aggressions, and pushback from opposers certainly discourages the brain and the body from participating. I like to think of myself as the ultimate wellness retreat host for dismantling systemic oppression. I create environments that activate your senses and ensure that your body, heart and mind are ready to participate in the work no matter what.

Although this is the hardest part of my work, I am so curious about our ability to commit to new behaviors and often find myself studying “second nature”—a characteristic or habit in someone that appears to be instinctive because that person has behaved in a particular way so often. My goal is to create learning and loving environments where this work becomes second nature for all of us. 

For example: Jumping on the train to get to 34th Street from Crown Heights, Brooklyn, is a part of my personal second nature as a New Yorker, and the behavior itself is reinforced every day by the sense-making we navigate as commuters in a commuter city. I figure in my work as a researcher and creative director at HTE I can create pathways of sense-making for diversity, equity and inclusion, illuminating components of our workplaces that people don’t normally see. Helping them to imagine themselves making change in these spaces and activating their ability to recruit others in their work. 

Beyond the illumination of the possibilities, it’s also about grounding people in understanding their identity and pushing them to imagine how they can engage in personal transformation work. The task of helping people with this sense-making of their dismantling systemic oppression journey is a guided walk through many steps accompanied by a growing community and the excitement of the social change movement. My job is to continue to build and cultivate this ecosystem, adding new members, teachers, artists, activities, resources and stages that help everyone along their dismantling systemic oppression journey.

What’s the single biggest misconception you come across in your work that you could share with our readers who want to be supportive of your efforts in dismantling system oppression?

Harriet Tubman Effect’s (HTE’s) focus on dismantling systemic oppression through participatory-action research lends itself to a unique track of learning and social impact. Participatory-action research is a movement-driven style of research emphasizing community engagement and ongoing commitment from people affected by the research questions at hand.

Upon encountering HTE, most people don’t recognize that dismantling systemic oppression requires a commitment to ongoing shifting of our current systems in ways that are contrary to behaviors of traditional capitalism. So as we participate in this system, we WILL be changing it. The speed at which we change the systems we’ve been invited into tends to be a bit shocking for anyone we work with. Everyone from new employees to clients are navigating this culture shock as we hold steadfast to our values of resisting white supremacy culture, efficacy, reallocation of wealth, research as learning and maintaining a culture of empathy. 

What’s great about values-based leadership is that our values literally steer the work and uncover things about our current practices that need immediate dismantling. The culture we know today as our typical American business culture inevitably has roots in the mindset of white supremacy. The cotton plantations of the South and the franchises of the 1950s were built in the midst of slavery and Jim Crow segregation. As we recognize those things alongside our members and clients, the transition from defensiveness and confusion to active dismantling of systemic oppression in modern time is a bit jarring. We liken it to stepping into a whole new world and deciphering what the rules of the environment are, how does one function, how do we thrive? 

All that being said, we are grateful to help people with this transition and offer educational resources, community, conversations and ways to practice new behaviors.

How would you describe the most fulfilling part of your work? What does a good day feel like?

There are these little pockets of excitement that happen for me when I see clients or team members shift into a new stage of their dismantling systemic oppression journey. We articulate five major growth steps in a Harriet Tubman Effect journey, and sometimes the shift from one step to the next is characterized by inner “aha moments” and other times it’s huge collaborative moments of community organizing or storytelling. I’ve seen things happen spontaneously in rooms where someone who has navigated the learning for a while suddenly arrives on the scene of “the new world.” Boldly they start to show up in a way that only they can to advocate for justice, guide someone on their journey or hold an institution accountable. I absolutely adore these moments, and if I can get one of those a day, it’s been a good one.

You are in a role that must absorb a significant amount of emotional energy. How do you compartmentalize that to enable you to run the marathon?

I’m honestly still figuring out my answer to this, but I’m sure I will arrive at a better understanding as I continue to do the work. One thing I know I have incorporated into my life more often is sacrifice. There are ways of serving that I used to really love, including direct response and emergency response work around supporting people in their workplace. I’ve realized that I really need to step back and use my energy for the larger strategizing and training of others. Better understanding my strengths and contextualizing how I can best contribute to this movement is the best thing I can do to navigate the challenge of emotional exhaustion. If I define and function in a capacity that is appropriate for me, I will be able to engage in the marathon. If I start to venture outside of my capacity, I’m bound to crash.

What gives you hope for meaningful change?

I try my best to recognize that this work will continue beyond my lifetime. Just like past civil rights leaders, my work will change the life of someone in the future. I am so deeply aware that I am a beneficiary of civil rights work in the 1800s, the 1900s and the early 2000s. I am excited to say that I’m confident in my impact on the future and I hope that communities who are interested in dismantling systemic oppression in 10-50 years have an easier time at it because of my work. Perhaps they may even find it comforting, fun and enjoyable. 

I’ve long admired the work that the Girl Scouts organization has played in our country, and more specifically, in my local community. They have been such a force for good for so many, and as a marketer, I’ve long wondered what was behind some of the magic of creating such a strong gravitational pull with its community.

In fact, just this past week I had a firsthand look at the remarkable engagement of the Girl Scouts community as my friends at Town Hall produced their “Paint the World Purple” virtual event hosted by Kristen Bell. They had tens of thousands of girls across the country tuned in and fully engaged in ways most brands could only dream of. It was so impressive to see.

To shed some light on the magic of the Girl Scouts of the USA brand, I sat down with Dana Siegel, VP of brand and product marketing, for a conversation about how they think about building community engagement. Dana sits on the front lines of the strategic thinking behind this amazing brand and didn’t disappoint with some fantastic insights.

Damian Bazadona: Girl Scouts is an organization that was created to be a space where women could “embrace their unique strengths and create their own opportunities” at a time when those opportunities, both professionally and personally, were incredibly limited for them. What has been at the core of how an organization that began with only 18 women in 1912 has become one of the most successful international women’s empowerment organizations—with over 2.5 million members—today?

Dana Siegel: This year Girl Scouts of the USA celebrates 110 years of adventures. As you mentioned, Girl Scouts was founded by Juliet Gordon Low in an era when women’s place in society was very different than today. What she created was an opportunity for girls to have a safe space to be themselves, make friends, support their community, explore their potential and make the world a better place. 

Since then, Girl Scouts has grown a tremendous amount from 18 girls in Savannah, Georgia, to a global movement with chapters representing every ZIP code in the USA and members in 90 countries. What remains consistent is the girl at the center of the organization. 

Our programming is girl-led to allow troops the ability to customize the experience by curating their girls’ interests, selecting across the hundreds of badge programs available, ranging in topics from outdoors to STEM. Girls setting their own path forward is what sets the Girl Scout Leadership Experience apart.

When someone thinks of Girl Scouts, they may assume your target audience is just that—girls. But as you note on your site, there are many roles that men and dads can get involved in at the organization as well. Have you ever had difficulty reaching these other demographics who may not initially think they have a place in your community? 

The Girl Scouts community is much larger than our K-12 members. Our membership includes our volunteers, who come from all walks of life, driven by the common desire to support our next generation to lead with courage, confidence and character. It is our troop leaders who are the backbone of our movement. The Girl Scout community is also made up by moms, dads and families who support their girls’ experiences. Our community is supported by the 50 million alumni who share the legacy of the program, and our community is made up of the businesses and supporters who fund our work and help to raise our girls’ voices.

Our troop leaders play the role of cheerleader-in-chief and guide to the limitless possibilities ahead. The experience doesn’t just change the girls in the troop, but deepens the troop leaders’ own leadership experience and community ties. It is a big commitment to be a troop leader, so it is not always an easy task to bring new troop leaders on, but when they see the incredible and fulfilling impact they can have, it is time well spent. We cast a wide net in recruiting troop leaders, so if you believe in girl-led experiences, learning by doing, discovery, collaboration and making a difference, perhaps you too have what it takes to lead a troop!

From video tutorials for activities, to educational resources, to events, your website is full of opportunities for your community to engage virtually, whether you’re a member or not. Was that something that existed prior to the pandemic? Or out of a need to keep your community doing what they do best—learning together?

Digital resources have been a part of the Girl Scout experience for some time, but when the pandemic hit, the organization pivoted very quickly to develop content to keep the girls connected to each other, their troop and the community at large in a meaningful way. This led to the development of the Girl Scout Activity Zone where content is created by girls, troop leaders, volunteers and councils to explore the Girl Scout experience, with topics ranging from finding shapes in nature, to measuring your carbon footprint, making a snack, to learning sales techniques to improve your cookie business. The best part is that all of this content is available for non-members as well!

Virtual events also became a key component of how we bring our members across the globe together. Last spring we produced an event in partnership with Michelle Obama and Penguin Random House centered around her book Becoming, and this year Girl Scouts painted the world purple in a virtual event with Girl Scout alum Kristin Bell on May 19th.

One of our most popular digital resources was around long before the pandemic and caters to parents at large. Raising Awesome Girls is our Girl Scout blog, which aims to make raising girls with confidence a whole lot easier. Our blog covers everything from how to address current events with your daughter to the mental health crisis that girls are facing today. It is one of the largest traffic sources to our website and helps us to reach families beyond our current membership.

Beyond being an organization that helps young women thrive through the Girl Scouts program, Girl Scouts also plays an active role in cause advocacy, with issues ranging from ocean conservation, to refugee resettlement, to gender equity in the workplace. Has taking a stance on issues at all impacted your community? How do you manage bringing together all of your members who may have differing opinions on these topics? How do you expand your inclusivity while not alienating?

For 110 years, Girl Scouts have been changing the world. In 1918, the Girl Scouts supported the Red Cross during the flu epidemic. During World War II, they contributed 15 million hours of volunteer service. And today, our girls contribute 3 million hours of community service annually in their local communities. 

Making the world a better place is central to the Girl Scout experience. Girls participate in our national service projects like the Tree Promise to join the mission to protect the planet from climate change by helping to plant 5 million trees. By participating in projects like this at a young age, girls learn to partake in projects that are bigger than their local community. They become stewards of the environment, they learn to work together to make changes that are bigger than themselves, and they learn that their work can have an enormous global impact. 

At every level of the program, Girl Scouts encourages girls to think about the issues that matter most to them and identify ways that they can make a positive change in their lives, the lives of their family and their community. They carry this mission with them from their early experiences as a Daisy through to their independent projects in our Highest Award programs. Our Bronze, Silver and Gold Award Girl Scouts work to make sustainable lasting change on issues that matter most to them. They learn to collaborate while solving the kinds of problems that most adults shy away from. When girls lead with passion, compassion and ambition, they can accomplish anything!

Having been around for well over 100 years, how has your messaging to both your own community and the public at large balanced honoring Girl Scouts’ long-standing legacy and traditions while still adapting to the times? Is there any particular approach that you have found to be most effective?

As you said, the Girl Scout experience is a legacy. While the program is the same generation to generation, what you do as a Girl Scout continues to evolve year-over-year. The Girl Scout Leadership Experience centers around outdoors, STEM, life skills and entrepreneurship. We release dozens of new badges each year to meet the evolving needs of our girls. In 2021, new STEM, cybersecurity and civics badges were released along with a new mental wellness program, which is available for all girls to participate in, not just existing members. 

While the program continues to evolve, what remains consistent is that Girl Scouts is not just an activity that you participate in. Girl Scouts is a way of life, it is who you are. This identity and connection with Girl Scouts is longstanding and goes back to the founding of the organization. When Girl Scouts is part of who you are, you carry it with you into your adulthood. The lessons you learn in Girl Scouting help shape the kind of adult and parent that you become, and the legacy continues on. 

Girl Scouts may be the only nonprofit with a branded product as prolific and successful as Girl Scout cookies. In a space that perhaps hasn’t needed a ton of innovation to hit its goals year-over-year, have you still sought to continue to up your cookie game over time? Whether that’s in adding new flavors, changing names, or you even recently teamed up with DoorDash to make same-day delivery a reality, didn’t you? Dangerous.

Oh yes! Cookie innovation is an important topic for us. This year we launched the new Adventureful (a Brownie-inspired cookie with a salted caramel center) and keep your ears open for next year’s new cookie. The cookies themselves are not the only innovation, though. The pandemic drove the need to innovate on how girls sell in their community beyond the traditional cookie booths and door-to-door sales. When the pandemic hit in the middle of the 2020 cookie season, the organization pivoted quickly and launched a nationwide digital platform to connect consumers to girls’ digital cookie pages in just nine days! 

As you mentioned, DoorDash is an important partnership to provide girls the ability to distribute at scale in their community. Through the Girl Scout cookie program, girls learn to run their cookie business with 21st century entrepreneurship tactics, from developing and fostering leads, to managing their digital business on Digital Cookie, to delivering the product to their customer in person, through DoorDash and through our shipping partners. The girls learn and innovate their own personal businesses year after year as well with creative marketing tactics—including booths outside of our national partners like Walmart, Joanne’s and GNC, creative pitch videos and even drone delivery. 

From a marketing perspective, we are as concerned about the girl’s experience as a first-time or seasoned entrepreneur as we are with the consumer experience. The consumer is not just buying delicious cookies, they are supporting the birth of a new generation of female entrepreneurs while helping to fund all the exciting programs that the girls will do all year long. This includes trips to the Girl Scout birthplace in Savannah, Georgia, supplies for STEM activities and even funds for troops to attend Phenom, our Girl Scout Convention in Disney World in July 2023. Cookie sales support everything that Girl Scouts do, so the next time you chomp into a delicious Thin Mint, remind yourself of all of the ways that you supported Girl Scouts’ ambitions with your purchase and buy a few extra! 

Girl Scouts, as a community, is as much about the young girls and women currently participating as Scouts as it is about its alums who stay involved with the organization long after they’ve completed the program. What do you think has been the key to these individuals so wanting to stay an active part of the community in the long term?

More than 50 million women in this country were Girl Scouts in their youth (that is one-third of the female population), along with 54 percent of the women in 117th Congress and 56 percent of female NASA astronauts. Being a Girl Scout is a badge of honor that we wear proudly. I mentioned earlier that Girl Scouts is not just an activity that you did as a kid, it is part of your identity. As you step into your adulthood, your Girl Scout identity is a bond, a shorthand, a connection with women you don’t know, have never met, but understand. You know what they value and the experiences they had as girls. Our alums are some of our strongest supporters, stepping in as volunteers, troop leaders and cookie buyers, lifting up the next generation in countless ways.

Many of our girls also bridge from Ambassadors to Lifetime Members. They celebrate their Girl Scout experience in college applications because college admissions officers recognize the experiences acquired in Girl Scouting—from independence, to collaboration, to being a contributor to their community—as the values they look for in their students. Employers know that hiring a Girl Scout means that you are resourceful, hardworking, trustworthy and a leader. Our alums stay connected to the Girl Scout movement both because of the identity that is ingrained in their way of life and because it is important to them to help provide the experience that helped shape their childhood with a new generation of girls of courage, confidence and character. 

The New York Philharmonic experience is undoubtedly one of the most incredible experiences you can have in New York City. So much so that it has created a remarkably passionate community of supporters over the years. I was lucky enough to recently spend some time with arts and culture marketing maven Lisa Grow, who is currently VP of marketing and customer experience at the NY Phil, to get her take on the success of this iconic brand and its deep-rooted impact on so many audiences. It was a true pleasure, and I think you will really enjoy her valuable insights.

Damian Bazadona: Describe what you think it means to be a “fan” of the New York Philharmonic. For those who aren’t part of the community, one might assume it’s a singular identity of people who have a deep passion for classical music specifically or only come from certain demographics. Have you watched the definition of what constitutes a fan evolve over the years?

Lisa Grow: There is no one definition for who a fan of the NY Phil is. There are a lot of generalizations about what a fan of classical music or a NY Phil fan looks like—grey-haired, high household income, a certain level of education, etc. Of course, if you look at the demographic background of subscribers at many organizations, one can say that generalization is true at the moment. But it’s important that we expand the definitions of “fan” and “community.” If we limit ourselves to defining fandom as a repeat, high volume, in-person customer, we miss out on a wide array of self-defined fans—someone across the country listening to our rich back catalogue of recordings, a child being exposed to one of our many educational programs, a ticket buyer who may only come once a year on a special occasion but is an active part of our social media community. 

I think the classical music “community” stereotype has many barriers, like an insider club where you need to know everything about the music or artists, where the cost of entry is high both financially and emotionally—”What do I wear?” “Do I belong?” Of course, we love our core classical music fans who nerd out on our social media pages or dig into our archives, but we need to balance the niche with the new. As a leader in the nonprofit performing arts world, we are striving to create an inclusive space where these generalizations can be broken down—a 360-degree approach where everyone can be a fan, at the level they choose, and that shift needs to be organization wide—programming, partnerships, marketing, customer experience and more. 

Over the years, the general concept of a fan has shifted from one-sided fandom to a two-sided relationship. Organizations need to give back to their fans, listen to them—even if we don’t like what we hear—and give back to our community. I am lucky enough to have many years of survey work and audience studies to help understand who our fans are, but it is so incredibly important to listen to our fans. The performing arts industry can also learn from other industries in terms of fan engagement—think of Beyoncé’s surprise album drops, or limited-edition merchandise at Comic-Con, or the personalized Spotify Wrapped year in review. 

Founded in 1842, NY Phil is one of New York City’s oldest institutions. How have you approached maintaining the longstanding traditions that many of your fans may have come to know and love while expanding your approach to reach new audiences?

When I first joined the NY Phil in 2017, I learned about so many traditions, both external and internal. Our history is so rich, and luckily, so much is documented and you can be overwhelmed by the history—whether watching videos of Young People’s Concerts with the iconic Leonard Bernstein or marketing materials for subscriber clubs from the 1980s. While we celebrate and maintain traditions, it’s important that we make room to create new ones. Some people view “legacy” or “legacy brands” as negative qualities these days. But if we actively question our past, we not only build upon it, but truly understand who we are today and how and where we need to change, as well as what we should celebrate about our past—sharing those things with audiences both new and tenured. 

We have programs that are 50-plus years old—Concerts in the Parks, Young People’s Concerts—and others that will be new this coming season, including a pay-what-you-want NY Phil @ Noon series, which takes place in the new Sidewalk Studio in the just-renovated David Geffen Hall opening in October 2022, including a digital wall in the new lobby on which people can watch live concerts. And while programming is a key part of reaching new audiences, the way we communicate this programming has shifted over the years. While just listing composers and works may be effective for a segment of our audience, in this crowded space we need to meet people where they are—both from a placement perspective, but also in messaging and content that places value on the experience.

There are also composers creating incredible new music today. NY Phil has always supported contemporary composers, and it’s our responsibility to expand the classical music canon to bring in new audiences and educate and expose our audiences to new sounds, composers and artists. We have also found that meaningful partnerships with other organizations across New York City and literally giving a stage to these partners not only creates a deeper relationship with communities in the city, but is a moment for us to learn and listen as an organization. 

The 2022-23 season kicks off a self-described new chapter for the NY Phil through programming that “engages with today’s cultural conversations” and focuses on “revitalizing connections with New York City communities.” Why did it feel important to bring both of those things into focus for this season?

In October 2022, we return “home” to David Geffen Hall, but it will be an entirely new hall—a renovation in partnership with Lincoln Center, opening almost two years ahead of schedule. While this is an incredibly important moment for us, it is certainly not an “If you build it, they will come” scenario. Of course, for some fans who have been waiting for this project to come to fruition, it will be. But this is an opportunity to engage a new audience and the broader New York City community—and a new hall is not enough. Our programming needed to reflect today’s conversations, so we are focusing on four themes this coming season: “home,” with a month-long opening featuring community partners and new works; “liberation,” exploring themes of social justice; “spirit,” focusing on the human spirit; and “earth,” which tackles the important subject of the climate crisis.

Relevance is incredibly important for arts organizations—how do we connect with people? How do we encourage a meaningful experience? Along with these programming themes, we will also feature popular programming such as Jurassic Park in Concert, part of our Art of the Score film series, which historically brings in the most new-to-file audience members each season. The season also introduces new series which push the genre boundaries a bit for us, as well as audience favorites. It is important to acknowledge that the audience journey is not linear and to provide many points of entry to this season and to the NY Phil in general.

The variety of programming is important, but so is the marketing and communication, which will include new ticketing programs and new partnerships. We also recently launched a rebrand, which was a research-forward process aiming to help us connect with a wider audience by exploring not only our visual identity but how we communicate. The in-person experience will also be pivotal, which is why we are working with our partners at Lincoln Center to redefine the concert-going experience to create a welcoming environment. Beyond the in-person experience, we aim to be a part of shifting the general perception of classical music and cultural arts organizations—that we can embrace change and be a part of society’s dialogue. 

How did the pandemic shift how you keep the passion of your community alive? Did you learn anything new about what your fans crave most about what you give? How do you keep them engaged outside of the theater?

Like most organizations, the pandemic forced us to become a content distribution studio overnight. At first, we looked at our calendar and shifted what we could to online. We launched an online Mahler festival, which included a partnership with Google Arts & Culture; a mini-festival that featured Instagram Live broadcasts with a mixologist and a DJ, who is also a member of our Orchestra; along with many other digital events. We were also very lucky to have our incredible musicians creating content in their homes, launching NY Phil Plays On, which provided content to our audiences when we could not gather in person, including activities for kids that were home all day—videos like Bolero, which featured many Orchestra members from their homes, and others.

We eventually launched NYPhil+, which we based on what people were engaging with at home—Disney+, Netflix, Hulu. Instead of modeling it off a per-concert model like a live event, we priced it at a low, monthly cost for access to hours of content. We learned much about our fans’ viewing behavior, which is informing our content strategy now that we are back in person. But we also paid attention to our fans who were not engaging with this content and reached out to them with postcards of notes from our musicians and holiday messages by, yes, direct mail. It was incredibly important to not leave any of our audiences behind in a time where they could not engage with us as they typically do. 

When it became a bit safer to be outside, we launched NY Phil Bandwagon—a series of pull-up concerts across the city where the goal was to bring music to our neighbors. We learned a lot during this program including the importance of cultivating partnerships, which led to NY Bandwagon 2, where we shared the stage—a 20-foot long mobile shipping container—with partners across the city. This program, created with countertenor Anthony Roth Costanzo, gave us perspective in continuing to build on the important work our Education and Community department has been doing for years, which is developing a platform for partners with the goal of meaningful audience development. This season and next, we are working with many of these partners to develop programs including a new Community Partners-in-Residence program.

What we learned from all of this is that what our audiences crave from us varies by person and it is important to show up where they need us most. Whether it was on their screens or on their corner, we explored what audience engagement can look like without traditional stages to perform upon, and I believe we are a stronger organization because of the flexibility we maintained during this extremely difficult time. 

In the size of a tweet, I would love a look into the Lisa Grow crystal ball: “The future of arts and cultural experiences looks _______.”

The future of arts and cultural experience looks varied depending on the work the org puts into true audience development. Relevance will only come if we are willing to roll up our sleeves. There are incredible opportunities for the arts to open doors, minds and hearts.

I think the classical music “community” stereotype has many barriers, like an insider club where you need to know everything about the music or artists, where the cost of entry is high both financially and emotionally—”What do I wear?” “Do I belong?” Of course, we love our core classical music fans who nerd out on our social media pages or dig into our archives, but we need to balance the niche with the new. As a leader in the nonprofit performing arts world, we are striving to create an inclusive space where these generalizations can be broken down—a 360-degree approach where everyone can be a fan, at the level they choose, and that shift needs to be organization wide—programming, partnerships, marketing, customer experience and more. 

Over the years, the general concept of a fan has shifted from one-sided fandom to a two-sided relationship. Organizations need to give back to their fans, listen to them—even if we don’t like what we hear—and give back to our community. I am lucky enough to have many years of survey work and audience studies to help understand who our fans are, but it is so incredibly important to listen to our fans. The performing arts industry can also learn from other industries in terms of fan engagement—think of Beyoncé’s surprise album drops, or limited-edition merchandise at Comic-Con, or the personalized Spotify Wrapped year in review.